30 replies to this topic

[WRCVR4]

Is it possible to fit a Mech RS LSD centre (3.545) center into a AWS pumpkin ?
Thiz will be eazier then removing AWS

[bazeng]

just remove it troy.

not hard at all,
remove the pump (either cut the gear or make a block off plate)
and block up the lines up front in the steering rack...

u can leave the lines in or remove them, up to you

if u want to dummy fit the rear diff, let me know, we can put it in my car =)

[VR-4Squid]

The mech lsd 'guts' don't have the drive gear for the 4ws pump, so no.

4ws removal is well worth the effort, imo. - combined with the mech lsd makes for much more predictable handling on loose surfaces (and on good surfaces when your really driving like an animal).


To remove the 4ws:

There's 4 lines running front to back, 2 high pressure from the steering rack, and 2 low pressure from the resevoir at the front.

Block the high pressure ones and remove the low pressure ones and block them where they come out of the res (or, swap to a res from a normal galant).

Remove the rack and throw it in the bin, remove the pump from on top of the old diff and throw it in the bin too.

Next remove the rear trailing arms, their tubular and the front bushing fits inside with a single bolt holding it in place, pull it out and cut away the rubber, then cut two 'C' shaped pieces from 5mm steel, files/shape them so they fit inside the end of the arm on either side of the shaft attatched to the bushing - by cutting them slightly oversized and filing them down it's possible to make them a very tight fit so they won't go anywhere, then weld them into place just to be sure.

Add some grease and a little dirt and no-one will be any the wiser
(though it helps if you remove the 4ws stickers from the sides of the car)


The rusty bolt just to the left of the head of the arrow holds the front joint into the arm.

Scribbled up a quick diagram of the area, top view (above) and side view (below).
The red is the rubber surrounding the metal shaft (grey), enough of this needs to be cut away so that your steel C-shaped spacers (green) can fit tightly into place.

Once you remove the bolt and pull the knuckle piece out it's quite easy to see what needs doing.

Hope that helps, if not...

I've been told you can drill and pin the rear steering rack instead if all this seems like too much hassle.

[WRCVR4]

Thanks guys

Once you cut the rubber away, does the bolt/shaft move side to side ?
Last thing i want to do, is stuff up the geometry/handling.
Is the rear toe still adjustable ?

Entaran, Do we still have that other rear end ? Might want the arms/rack off it.

Pining the rack will still leave the toe adjustable, i have been thinking (in the past) of replacing the rack with a rod, still with tie rod ends, to keep the adjust ability our cars have :?

Barry, If i can not fit the center into my current housing, then ill swap in the whole housing (Saves blocking off the PS hole etc)

[bazeng]

ah yes,

good write up!!

dooo it trooooy....
if u have access to another rear subframe... modify that with all bushes etc, paint (protect from rust) and just swap the whole lot in a few hours..

[WRCVR4]

I might have access, but its 170km away, and i don't think it fits inside a VR4's boot

The LSD rear shafts will get rebuilt, before it goes in

[Entaran]

Cruisers out next week. I can bring it to you.

The diff and axles are gone (into mat's car...) but the rest of it is still complete wheel to wheel (they're still on it...)

As for the rest of you, if you REALLY HONESTLY THINK the 4ws makes the car harder to drive, I think you all need lessons Once you get used to it, it's FAR FAR FAR more stable under high speed. You probably just come from an RWD background and prefer oversteer as opposed to neutral handling which the 4ws provides.

or you're worried about weight.

[WRCVR4]

Cool no rush dude.

It will get the new LSD diff(housing) and axles anyway.

and there seams to be no way to keep the AWS with the RS Mech LSD :?

For the record, i haven't notices any issues on the dirt, or though the spurs with the AWS, and umm, i don't drive slow with rally/semi tires on
But haven't driven a VR4 without it YET :?

[CLuTZ]

As for the rest of you, if you REALLY HONESTLY THINK the 4ws makes the car harder to drive, I think you all need lessons Once you get used to it, it's FAR FAR FAR more stable under high speed.

What planet are you on dude!! 4WS sux at high speed!!!

[rob323]

As for the rest of you, if you REALLY HONESTLY THINK the 4ws makes the car harder to drive, I think you all need lessons Once you get used to it, it's FAR FAR FAR more stable under high speed.

What planet are you on dude!! 4WS sux at high speed!!!

I have had no problems with my 4ws while doing between 100 and 140 kph around turns 1 and 2 on Queensland Raceway with semislicks. Is that high enough speed?

I wonder if the problems that the 4ws is being blamed for are actually caused by worn subframe bushes, tie rod ends etc?

[Entaran]

I'm with rob.

I've had little to no problems with 4ws on my previous vr4 which had every single suspension component replaced (every bush under the car, tierods, etc) all at the same time. The "crabbing" is a very interesting feeling at high speed but once you get used to it, you can hit corners a WHOLE lot harder because you -know- the tail isn't going to come around and you'll be looking out the side window to see where you're going.

The 4ws system was designed to work at high speed... that's why it only engages above 51kmh... and only moves 2-3mm in either direction. It's really just a stability aid rather than a real steering aid.

I wouldn't trade mine for the world.

[VR-4Squid]

I'm with rob.

The 4ws system was designed to work at high speed... that's why it only engages above 51kmh... and only moves 2-3mm in either direction. It's really just a stability aid rather than a real steering aid.

I wouldn't trade mine for the world.

51km/h? it's driven (mechanically) off the rear differential, faster you go, faster the pump spins... nothing to make it cut in or out at any speed/situation/etc....

As for the rest of you, if you REALLY HONESTLY THINK the 4ws makes the car harder to drive, I think you all need lessons Once you get used to it, it's FAR FAR FAR more stable under high speed. You probably just come from an RWD background and prefer oversteer as opposed to neutral handling which the 4ws provides.

Your probably right about the prefering oversteer thing,

4ws removal is well worth the effort, imo. - combined with the mech lsd makes for much more predictable handling on loose surfaces (and on good surfaces when your really driving like an animal).

I found once the car was sliding the 4ws unsettled it, whether this is the fault of the 4ws system, worn bushes, or the open rear diff I don't know - But I found the car much better in this situation with the mech lsd and no 4ws. (It's worth noting RS vr4's don't have 4ws so mitsi must agree with me).

or you're worried about weight.

That too.

[CLuTZ]

I'm with rob.

lol


If its really that good, then why does everyone take it out? Surely not just to save weight?


My old VR4 used to feel unstable at high speeds around corners, with even the slightest turn of the steering wheel, it felt like a huge yank of the steering wheel instead......

[Entaran]

I'm with rob.

lol


If its really that good, then why does everyone take it out? Surely not just to save weight?


My old VR4 used to feel unstable at high speeds around corners, with even the slightest turn of the steering wheel, it felt like a huge yank of the steering wheel instead......

Well I wish you had of taken my last vr4 for a drive because you wouldn't have felt the same way. Although i'm sure you would've thought it was way underpowered.

Everyone has their own opinion. I disagree with the "majority" in this situation and will remain that way.

[brisvr4]

I've taken mine out ( only because the lines died on me ).

All I did was to remove the lines from the pump and block the front lines off.

Dsm's in the States run a passive rear steering system which is what I now have in effect.
I can't say that I have noticed any handling difference between having it or not.

But thats just me, each to their own

[WRCVR4]

Which workshop would people suggest to have this work done ?

[bazeng]

it felt wobbly im my opinion
sorta the car was on jelly...

[rob323]

If there is any slop in any of the bushes, mounts, tied rod ends, rack ends, wheel bearings etc in the rear end, then there are alot of things which could make the car feel unstable in the rear end at high speed, such as incorrect toe settings, thrust alignment setting, different tyre wear or pressures on either side, unevenly torqued wheel nuts, imbalances in the wheels, bump steer cause the car is too low, stuffed or inadequate shock absorbers and so on.......

One thing though, If you run passive rear steering like Brisvr4, I would not run with toe out on the rear wheels as it will crab everywhere. 1 or 2 mm of toe in should have it track pretty straight though.

[brisvr4]

One thing though, If you run passive rear steering like Brisvr4, I would not run with toe out on the rear wheels as it will crab everywhere. 1 or 2 mm of toe in should have it track pretty straight though.

Pretty sure thats how mine is set up too Rob
I'll get it checked again soon when it goes in for an alignment.

[WyDa]

I have driven both...

I rarely drive fast enough to worry about the difference, but I did notice it felt odd. (4ws)

But that said once I got used to it i didnt find it an issue...

My vr4 stuck like sh!t to a blanket, with the 4ws still working so I was quite happy with it....